What Moves Should We Consider with The Latest President Biden’s Tax Plan? |Weekly Wednesday Wisdom Webinars

Certified Elder Law Attorney and Financial Advisor Chris Berry of Castle Wealth Group answers retirement and estate planning questions every Wednesday at 1pm.

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Castle Wealth Group and Christopher Berry help families with estate planning, elder law, retirement planning, and tax planning from their offices in Brighton, Ann Arbor, Livonia, Bloomfield Hills, and Novi.



On this week’s webinar, attorney and advisor Chris Berry of www.castlewealthlegal.com answers the below questions.

  • I have appointed a financial power of attorney and medical power attorney, but what is a disability panel?
  • How to prevent consequences of decline (loss of independence and poor decisions)?
  • What testing or safeguards can be put in place and what should be done to protect against cognitive and physical decline having other negative consequences?
  • What about transitions from health to a slow decline, what can be done?
  • What moves should we consider or think about and what’s the latest with the President Biden Tax Plan?
  • Mom set up a Castle Trust 2 years ago. If she needs nursing home care now, and she pays 3 years of care, will the remainder be protected?
  • About Lady Bird Deed
  • What does action to protect against estate taxes needs to be done this year?
  • Once my sister dies and I inherit her empty home, am I responsible for paying off her debts? Her home is her only asset.
  • What is the best way to protect a family cottage from further disrepair that has been destroyed by a family member who’s been “staying there but not taking care of the place”? There’s no trust et cetera, just four siblings on the deed.
  • Do we do an LLC, a Trust, or Lady Bird Deed?


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Episode Transcript

First, every week on Wednesday at one o’clock and they’re recorded and uploaded to our Youtube channel. So if you ever miss one you can watch a replay or go back over what we talked about. If it was so exciting that you wanted a rehash of whatever it was and these are all questions submitted either ahead of time via email or while we’re live. So there’s no scripted PowerPoint or anything. We do webinars that have a specific focus for example tomorrow night at six. We’re going to do a live webinar on legal financial and tax planning in three easy steps you can just call our office or I can send out that link or email. If you want access to that’ll be more of a scripted PowerPoint going through specific topics versus just answering questions submitted throughout the week and if there are other people that you think would benefit from attending one of these weekly wisdom webinars please feel free to share that information. And with that, we’ll go ahead and start and I always start these with a positive focus just something positive that happened over the last week. 

I find it kind of creates good positive energy in the world. So my positive focus is that three months ago actually to the day I had a total hip replacement on my left hip. Which was bothering me for a number of years and finally decided to get it taken care of and this past week I was able to go for a run for four miles and kind of get back to working out and everything so it’s pretty exciting medical technology. It can be pretty darn amazing to know that I could barely walk about three months ago and now I can just bust out a four-mile run. So that was kind of fun and then I was sore in muscles. I didn’t even know I had afterward but it was pretty cool. So that was my positive focus.

So let me now share my screen and get into it to do I hit this button oh goodness seconds there we are. All right so this information is always general if you want to see how it applies to your situation you’re going to have to make sure to reach out to us just give our office a call you can call anytime it’s 8 4 4 885420. All right so we had a couple of questions kind of all from the same person. All geared around kind of cognitive defined this idea that we don’t start or we don’t go from just healthy to incapacitated we go through a lot of times an aging process and it can be some tough decisions of when to pull the trigger to step in and get involved. So a lot of the questions had to do with that. So this first question here. I’ve been appointed a financial power of attorney and medical power of attorney but the question is what is a disability panel so a financial power of attorney. This is obviously appointing someone to make financial decisions and medical power of attorney obviously has medical decisions. You might also hear that’s called a patient advocate designation advance directive living will all kind of mean the same thing. 

So the idea is you have someone to make financial decisions. Someone to make medical decisions everyone over the age of 18 should have a financial and medical power of attorney and you never know when life’s going to throw you a curveball. Like Terry Schiavo, she was a woman down in Florida. She was in a vegetative state her husband wanted her to remove her from life support. Her family wanted her to remain on life support and became a big court battle last over eight years because she didn’t have that medical power of return. So these two things are vitally important everyone over the age 18 should have one in place now a disability panel typically where we see this come up is in a trust. So think of a trust it’s kind of like a suitcase or piggy bank. You move assets into the trust or the trust is listed as a beneficiary and if you have assets owned by a trust. Like a lot of times we’ll set up a castle trust which is an asset protection trust and we’ll put things in here like a home or second piece of real estate or just investments.

Understand that while you’re alive and well you could be the trustee of this but if you were to get a knack in your head then you’re gonna have a successor trustee. Which is basically very similar to like a financial power of attorney. So think of it like a piggy bank you’re holding on to if you get a knock in your head and you’re incapacitated then you pass that role of managing the assets even while you’re alive to that successor trustee. So where a disability panel comes into play is with a trust and it’s a way to transition the role of the trustee from you to whoever you’ve listed as a successor trustee without having to have two licensed physicians sign off. It’s a way that we can control when that trigger would happen. So there’s different ways that you could step down or transition the role of trusteeship. One is you could just resign or the other is maybe a disability panel which is made up of like three of your family members. Say that you’re not in a position to manage your affairs anymore in which case that could trigger the successor trustee to step in. So a disability panel typically is going to be part of a trust and a way to transition from you as the initial trustee to a successor trustee. If there are questions of capacity and that disability panel could have a physician on it or could have family members. It really just gives more flexibility to handling that transition. Another question okay so I have another question about ladybird deeds I’ll get to that at the end.

How to prevent consequences decline loss of independence decisions again from a legal standpoint. We can only build in our legal structure and really what these tools are they’re like creating a rule book. So that we don’t have to rely on the courts rulebook. So I can only talk about kind of the financial or legal or tax things. I can’t talk about just improving or preventing decline that’s going to be more of and we do work with like social workers or geriatric care managers. They’re professionals who would make recommendations about making the home safer or maybe you should have a grab bar here or you know what let’s do a cognitive assessment to figure out if maybe you shouldn’t be living on your own anymore. I’m not a medical professional as an elder law attorney or attorney and advisor. Like I deal with the legal and the financial attack side of things but typically I wouldn’t be the one in the position making any of those kinds of care decisions but let’s say what kind of safeguards or what do we do to prevent the consequences of decline and really it’s just creating that rule book making sure that we have a set of rules versus not leaving up to the government in probate to decide your fate. So let’s say you haven’t ever created your rule book your will or trust or power of attorney now you suffer a stroke then you’re going to be in that Terry Shiloh situation where it’s a core battle to figure out what happens with you. So by creating your own rule book which is really your estate plan at the end of the day. So a trust will talk about what happens if you pass away your financial power of attorney medical power of attorney sometimes we do what’s called a personal care plan.

So if you need long-term care what would it look like by having these in place you’re protecting against kind of the living probate of having to go to probate while you’re alive and having the government decide you’re fake. So really that’s all we can do is just make sure that we have a rule book in a place estate plan in place that doesn’t just talk about what happens when you die but also what happens if you don’t you continue to live and face all the issues that go along with living. And then make sure that you have people you trust and understand that whoever you come up with is going to be better than leaving up the courts to to decide what. So this next question here what testing or safeguards can be put in place or what should be done to protect against kind of cognitive and physical decline and having other negative consequences. Really it’s kind of what we talked about it’s creating your own rule book okay and really from a financial standpoint the two things that we’re looking at is a trust and a will or a trust in a financial power of attorney because a financial power of attorney just appoints someone to make decisions.

It doesn’t actually take away your ability to make decisions versus a trust a trust provides more safeguards. If it’s set up correctly and again this is an important distinction. So a financial power of attorney all you’re doing is appointing someone to be able to make financial decisions in addition to you versus a trust. You could serve as a trustee but maybe it gets to a point where you’re not going to be the trustee anymore and then we appoint someone else to serve as that trustee and that someone else could be serving now. For example, I had a situation this is a number of years ago engineering client had over two million dollars really bright he kind of managing his own finances. But they started suffering from dementia and got taken up in a couple of scams and so what we decided as a family is maybe now is the time to set up an asset protection trust. Not only to protect his assets from say nursing home or Medicaid but also protect the assets from his poor financial mismanagement. So now we appointed someone else as a trustee to manage that money for him even though he’s alive. So he had a trustee already in place. Question on trustee what would be required to change the role of trustees in an estate plan. 

So typically when we set up an estate plan you’ll have your initial trustee which typically would be you as the person creating the estate plan. And then you would choose your successor trustees at that time which could be a spouse’s children in some order. Now to trigger going to the next level of trustees would go from the initial trustee to a successor. That’s where things like a disability panel could come in. That disability panel says that you as a trustee aren’t in a position to do that. They could trigger the successor trustee step in second would be just resigning or stepping down. So I have a lot of people in that situation where if you look at it from okay I’m fully healthy to the other side of the continuum is totally incapacitated spell that wrong understands we do we don’t go from just healthy to completely incapacitated. We kind of go through this gray area. So a lot of times what happens is mom or dad or my client will realize you know what I need some help. So now let’s make sure that we have that financial attorney in place they can do things right away maybe I name one of the kids as a successor trustee to monitor things. So that would be another reason why another way that would trigger that successor trustee language would be if whoever created the trust makes an amendment. Where now we bring up one of the kids who are a successor trustee as a co-trustee or if we have two licensed physicians signing off to say someone’s incapacitated. 

Then the successor trustee could step in or obviously if the initial trustee passes away those would all be situations where we would go from the initial trustee to the successor trustee but yeah trusts really are one of the best ways other than going court. The court route, if we were to go to the court route, would be like guardianship or conservatorship. Now we’re leaving it up to the judge and the courts to decide our fate versus whoever we appoint as a successor trustee. So a lot of times trusts really make a lot of sense if we are looking at safeguarding these assets not just from probate but also from maybe our own poorer decision making. As we get older trusts have more benefit than financial powers of attorney because of trust you can turn over full control if you wanted to versus the financial power of attorney you’d still be in a position to make poor decisions.

The next question what about transitions from health to slow decline. Kind of talked about that already a lot of times what we’ll do is you’ll be in charge while you’re alive and well and then you would realize or maybe having conversations with family or maybe you get to the point where you just don’t want to manage the checkbook anymore. We would utilize the rulebook of the trust and the financial power of attorney to get others moved forward. Follow-up question so as long as you have a trust established you would work with that legal entity the answer is yes. A trust it’s almost like a legal entity think of it like a suitcase or purse that you’re holding on to with trust there’s kind of three roles that have to be filled. The first role is that of a grantor who’s the person that creates the trust. So that would be typically the client or you. The second would be the role of the trustee who manages the assets in the trust. So that might be you as the initial trustee and then you could have your successor trustees. And then third who would be the beneficiary of the trust. Typically that would be you initially or the client and then upon death maybe now the beneficiaries would be the spouse or kids. So yeah you establish the trust and if you’re serving all these roles, in the beginning, maybe due to decline you now want to add the successor trustee to step up or if you pass away upon death. Now the kids are the beneficiaries. So yeah you would set up a trust now and then it’s something that kind of grows and works with you. All right so that is kind of dealing with decline and having these legal documents in place and again at the end of the day, it’s really about looking at creating your own robot. If you create your own rule book you’re not relying on the government’s rulebook and understand that having these legal documents in place it’s not protecting against getting dementia but it can create a set of rules or guidelines for if we were to decline. What is that going to look like that’s why we have a trust. 

That’s why we have the financial power of attorney the disability panel the medical power of attorney. It’s really creating that legal structure that legal entity that’s the foundation of things. All right a couple more questions ladybird birdies. I work for now I’m a need to refer to non-profit all right I’ll get to those questions in a second. Let me knock off this last one here okay. So what moves should we consider think about when with and what’s the latest with a present bite in the tax plan. So this is something I could talk about really almost every week as we kind of figure out what’s happening here again nothing’s official yet but we do know a couple of things. So again it goes back to this concept of tax buckets that we’ve covered. Before one of the most important things you can do is just understand how these different tax buckets work and how you currently have your assets structured versus maybe how optimally you should have it structured. So first we have taxable accounts. So this is typically your checking savings brokerage accounts I’ll put real estate typically over here.

The reason this is important is you’re taxed on typically gains capital gains okay. Second, we have tax-deferred this is like your IRA money pre-tax ira 401ks traditional four three b’s 457s. And here whenever you take money out you’re taxed at income tax rates okay. Then we have what we call tax-free this is like your Roth 401ks Roth I raise IUL which is cash value life insurance 529s and health savings accounts. So these are income-tax-free but not estate tax-free. These are also a factor into estate taxes not a state tax-free and then with all the conversations going on we didn’t use to have to worry about this much because the exemption was so high. Now we have to we have our fourth bucket showing its face again and that’s what I call tax free plus and that bucket is income and estate tax free. So this is really important to understand is just how you have your assets structured because we know a couple of things we know taxes are going up in the future. So we know income tax is going up in the future okay. We have the tax cuts and jobs act we’re 30 trillion dollars in debt. We know income tax is going up because that’s the way the laws are currently structured and most people look at our deficit and everything and the spending that’s going on. So they’re concerned about income tax going up now here’s part of Biden’s proposal the gains on capital gains are going up as well. So if income tax is going up then guess what that’s going to affect this bucket and now this bucket is the last place we want money. So everyone needs to be thinking about if you’re saving money which bucket are you saving in. But also looking at moving money out of whoops out of that tax-deferred bucket as much as possible to taxable tax-free or tax-free plus depending on your situation because we know income taxes are going up. Well now with the Biden tax plan we’re going to lose what’s called step up and basis. So step up and the basis is going away. So if you have a large amount of money inside of your taxable accounts well you’re taxed on the gains but we’ve had a step-up basis where when you pass away all those gains. Basically, get stepped up you don’t have to pay tax on it and really we see this with real estate but I have clients that have a lot of money in their taxable accounts. And in the past, we’re counting on that step up in basis where if it was at a hundred thousand it grew to a million. And then you pass away the kids would inherit that tax-free. Now if you’re at a hundred thousand it grows to a million they would have nine hundred thousand dollars worth of gains. 

Okay and then also in this bucket you also have to worry about estate taxes as well and so we know the estate tax exemption is going down which means that estate taxes are going up as well where right now it’s at 11 million dollars. So as long as you die with less than 11 million dollars you owe zero estate tax than when the tax cuts and jobs act expires. We know it’s dropping down to five million and the buying proposal is taking it even further down to 3.5 million. So where that really becomes an issue is okay these first three buckets all have estate taxes all factor into estate taxes yes even Roths factor into estate taxes. So that’s why a lot of conversations we’re having is moving money into this tax-free plus bracket bucket. And this is where irrevocable life insurance trusts plus IUL which is cash value or death benefit life insurance is a tool that should be explored and understand that some of these moves have to be done this year before any changes are made. Especially if we’re concerned about estate taxes like if you’re in this range of 11 million five million or three and a half million, We need to have a conversation this year because there are some opportunities that you’ll only be able to utilize if you’re concerned about estate taxes or your money growing to become an estate tax issue in the future.

There are some strategies that can only be used this year to move money over to this estate tax-free bucket. So those are the big things with the Biden tax plan is looking at it from an income tax standpoint the capital gains standpoint which is now really coming after this bucket for the first time that we’ve seen in a while. And then looking at it from estate taxes where maybe the easy answer isn’t just always doing a Roth conversion because that’s going to factor into estate taxes and then there’s more advanced kind of planning strategies as well. But really the this is probably the biggest risk and biggest opportunity right now that I see for people is looking at where taxes are going. All right changing gears this question came in right before we started so my mom set up a castle trust two years ago and if she goes into a nursing home right now will she how to pay out of savings for three years to get a five-year mark okay. So we have let’s say mom and mom set up a castle trust what a castle trust does it’s a form of asset protection trust where we can move assets into the trust like your home money.

We can have someone else manage it. So in this situation, mom might not be managing her funds anymore and the big reason for this is the concern about long-term care costs which can run these days about nine to thirteen thousand dollars per month for a nursing home. And we have this governmental program called Medicaid that will help pay the cost of care for a nursing home but to qualify for Medicaid a single individual can only have two thousand dollars worth of countable assets. And they’re going to look back five years to see if you moved any money around and if you have they’re going to penalize you and this is called the Medicaid look-back period. It’s a five-year period. So think of it as we move money into the trust we start that five-year clock once we make it five years a hundred percent of what we’ve moved into that trust is protected from that nursing home or Medicaid spend-down. So ideally we set up the trust as soon as possible and we can make it five years. If we do make it a hundred percent we can wave that checkered flag 100 is protected but let’s say we only make it two years okay then what we need to do is a financial analysis to figure out does it make more sense to unwind the trust and do a Medicaid crisis plan. Sometimes you call here that’s called like a half loaf like a loaf of bread. So we can protect half of like if you have a loved one nursing home. Now we can protect half of the assets okay like if they’re in a nursing home now paying 12 000 a month and let’s say they have 200 000 assets there are still strategies. 

We can do at the last minute to protect at least half of it it’s complicated it’s stressful it’s called a Medicaid crisis plan. It is the crisis to do it but we can do it so we look at okay we can protect half by doing that or does it make sense to private pay to the five-year mark. So we would just have to pay out of pocket to the five-year mark and then once we’re at year five then a hundred percent of what’s in the trust is protected. Okay so yeah we might have to pull money out of the trust. We would give it back to mom to then pay the nursing home but that might allow us to protect 75 percent of the assets. So at the very least, we can protect half but maybe we can protect more and if we could make it all the way then we could protect a hundred percent. So hopefully that was helpful. Okay, a couple more questions coming in here let’s see this is about ladybird deeds. Just read this as I go ladybird deeds are a type of deeds like a quick claim deed or warranty deed. That says it’s in your name or you’re alive and then upon death goes whoever you list as a beneficiary kind of like beneficiary designations for real estate. Hello Chris this is about ladybird deeds and conflicting commonly known addresses. The latest warranty deed shows what appears to be the correct legal description but prior warranty deeds and other recorded documents show a different commonly known address but the same legal description. Do you think it is okay to move forward with a ladybird deed based on the latest legal description or go back and resolve the buried issue? That’s kind of I would they’re going to follow the legal description commonly known address. That’s from a legal standpoint really not that important but if this was like a property I was getting I would have a title company figure that issue out for you. Another question I work for a non-profit needs to refer a client to a non-profit professional fiduciary. Probably a super stretch do you know of any non-profit professional fiduciary entities. 

I do not depending on the situation maybe you can check with the area agency on aging but the role of a professional fiduciary is not a fun role. So I don’t think you’re going to find a lot of non-profit professional fiduciaries but I could be wrong but I might reach out to an area agency on aging. They’re a non-profit they collect or connect a lot of people at least in the aging community or low-income community with non-profits. What is the best way to protect yes that was super helpful? Thank you Chris my pleasure thank you for answering the questions my pleasure. Here’s the last question I have submitted. So if you do have any more here we go Chris what does action to protect against estate taxes needs to be done this year. Well, let me go back. So here’s one strategy that’s only going to work this year and I don’t want to dive too deep into this. I’m more than happy to get on a call to kind of go over this but right now we have an 11 million dollar estate tax exemption for a single individual. We can double that for a married couple but let’s just focus on that 11 million dollars.

So let’s say right now our current estate is at 13 million or no let’s reverse that dude go the other way. So current estate tax exemption is 11 million dollars let’s say we have 9 million. Okay, a good problem to have now with this if we pass away right now we owe zero estate and death taxes. Okay because this 11 million dollar is an estate and gift tax unified credit. So when you gift during a year if you gift more than fifteen thousand dollars you have to fill out a gift tax form and that cuts into your lifetime unified credit that’s currently 11 million dollars. So we know due to the tax cuts and jobs act which is set to expire in 2025 that this is dropping down to five million dollars in change and again this is both estate and lifetime gift tax exclusion and the proposal from president Biden is taking. This even further down to potentially 3.5 and there’s even talk of lowering it to a million and keep in mind this exemption has been low as 600 000. 

So there is precedence especially given our deficit to lower the senate even further. So here’s the opportunity big picture what we can do is say okay how much space do we have here right. There are two million dollars and the question me and my colleagues had is well if we gift this out now and we could gift it to trust to maintain at least some semblance of control if we get this out what happens when this estate tax exemption drops down to 5 million. Do we still have the full 5 million or is it reduced to 3 million because we’ve already used 2 million? Well the IRAs got back to us and said you know what if you gift it now basically your grandfather didn’t okay. So even if the estate tax exemption does and gift tax exemption does drop whatever you’ve gifted during this time frame doesn’t count to your unified credit moving forward if it does dropdown. So if you’re in a situation where again let’s say you have three and a half million dollars. I would be we should have a conversation to see if something like this makes sense. There’s different mechanics to it different ways we can structure it depending on what your goals are but this is something that has to be done this year. The other thing is that with this capital gains issue we might have to take money out of this account now and move it to something else if you want to avoid capital gains. Because moving forward there’s been some interesting talk about having some call-back provisions after this rule does take effect. So just those are two big things just right off the top that needs to be thought of this year especially if we’re and then also if we’re talking about like life insurance.

This needs to be done sooner the better just because you’re never going to get any younger and your health probably won’t get any better. So yeah so that’s what needs why I’m saying some of this has to be thought about today or this year. Hi, Chris back to ladybird deed. Once my sister dies and I inherit her empty home and my responsible for paying off her debts her home is the only asset so we have the ladybird deed. And again it’s like a beneficiary designation. So right now sister owns it and then upon death it goes to you well you inherit the property okay you don’t inherit any of her debt but there might be a mortgage that’s attached to this property. So we’ll talk about how this works let’s say the mortgage is for fifty thousand and let’s say the home is valued at two hundred thousand okay. When she dies that triggers a due on sale clause where now this mortgage company has to get paid off and you can either refinance it. So now you take the house and now you get your own mortgage you could sell it. So sell it you sell for 200 you pay off the mortgage company you’re walking away with 150. Or you could just pay it off pay off the mortgage with other funds because this is a secure it’s a secured debt. So this follows not because your sister passed.

Well does it go to you it follows the asset or I guess you could refinance it you could sell it you could pay off the debt or you could just let them take the house. So this was big back in the housing crisis. So if instead, the mortgage was 250 and the house was only valued at 200. You would say okay mortgage company all yours take it but yeah otherwise it passes to you debt-free the rest of our debts typically are probably going to be unsecured like credit card debt that type of thing. That dies basically when she dies theoretically they could open up probate but there’s not going to be any assets and going through probate. So it’s kind of pointless so yeah you wouldn’t you unless you signed something as a co-signer or something like that you never inherit unsecured debt because it’s not secured by anything but if you have an auto loan that’s secured with a car. If you have a mortgage that’s secured with a home those typically have to be triggered or handled because of the due on sale clause. That’s part of those all right what is the best way to protect a family cottage from further disrepair that has been destroyed by a family member who’s been quote-unquote staying there but not taking care of place there’s no trust etc just four siblings on the deed okay. 

So yeah I don’t have a good answer for this one. So here’s a situation we have this home and we have four people and again this is why I’m not a big fan of joint ownership except for between married couples. So sounds like they inherited this jointly. So each one of the four has a right in the home to be able to sell it you basically have to have all four people sign off on it if there are expenses and the home is in disrepair there’s no there are no rules around. How do you handle that that’s why especially when we’re talking about family cottages. These family cottages or the property up north that we want to keep in the family maybe a lot of times we have this going into either a trust or taking it one step further sometimes a limited liability company LLC. That kind of that can then kind of create the rules of okay this situation’s happening what do we do it’s almost like creating an operating agreement. So it sounds like none of that was in place and so really unless the four of you can work it out you’re looking at court you’re just going to have to go to court and fight it out. There really isn’t a good answer ideally this was set up differently ahead of time where maybe we have one person managing it or we have a set of rules. And again that’s what legal planning is about that’s what estate planning is all about it’s all whoops a lot of it is all about just creating a rule book a rule book to keep things out of court a rule book to talk about situations like this that could have been handled through a LLC or a trust. 

Where we could say if the majority agrees that someone’s not holding up there under the bargain here’s what happens or we set aside this is why some of my families will set aside x amount of dollars to keep that family cottage going that’s been in the family. I just did that with a plan probably a week or so ago where we had I don’t know five percent just set us the cottage. Held in trust for the benefit of the kids and then I think five percent of the assets held in trust to cover any expenses and funds and then if you want to take it a step further we can create an LLC that has an operating agreement of okay. How do you decide when to fix the roof if someone doesn’t throw in their money what happens. Then again this what we do is with the estate planning piece of our practice. We’re just creating a rule book a rule book to protect against going to courts a rule book to protect against family a rule book that can protect your assets all right. Via LLC with operating agreement and trust as opposed to ladybird deed. So I think the question is getting to.

Okay do we do an LLC do we do a trust do we do a ladybird deed. So what is the best way to handle real estate and I’m going to give you the attorney and fiduciary answer it depends on what your goals are. Which I know is super frustrating but that’s why what we do is figure out what is your goals figure out the best strategy to help you achieve the goals and then pick the right tools at the end of the day. A ladybird deed avoids probate and typically we’ll do this for at the very least your primary residence. A trust can depending on the type of trust can avoid probate can build in asset protection. So protecting either the primary or secondary pieces of real estate depending on what type of trust also can build rules. Right so if we wanted to go to the four kids but they have to throw in x amount of dollars that all could be done within a trust this can be primary as well as say rentals or second pieces of property this could be primary or rentals downside of the ladybird deed outright distribution, so no control no rules.

We’ll say less asset protection ladybird d cheaper trust a little more expensive more of a cost LLC can avoid probate if it’s set up properly. Asset protection limited liability company LLC cannot be but it cannot be done for your primary it would uncap it from tax perspective ongoing fees. Which isn’t much but you have ongoing fees to the state to maintain the LLC. So I would say with your primary residence we’re either doing one either feeding it to the trust or doing a ladybird deed and then with second and third pieces of property, it’s just figuring out what your goals are what’s important. So again it’s not like one’s better than the other they’re all tools it’s just a matter of figuring out which tool to use. So hopefully that was helpful all right any other last questions let’s see what came in here no mortgage on that. Thank you for answering my question super helpful my pleasure all right. So yeah so with that it’s been a pleasure having everyone on again if you do have another super helpful answer that all right. So with that make it a great week if you have questions feel free to give our office a call thank you so much make it a great week.

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